AmyJune Hineline:

I think some people can get kind of wound up on, like, sticking to what they do and getting better at that one thing, but not utilizing all of those skills at once and like giving yourself the permission to kind of be a beginner again. You know, stepping down from a leadership role, like right now I'm like actively stepping down from Drupal mentor coordinator, because when I say no, it gives someone else a chance to say yes, you know, and stepping down gracefully is part of being a leader. So that way I could move into the conflict resolution team. And now I'm learning about that kind of stuff. So allowing yourself to get into those leadership roles, mentor someone into those, and then move on to the next thing you might have some interest in or not have an interest in. But there's a gap to fill, you know, just being able to take those chances and being willing to not be good at what you do for a while. And I'm really good at that.

‍

Intro:

I need a hero, Hero, hero. There goes my hero. Let me be your hero. You're listening to the Everyday Heroes podcast brought to you by Herobevs.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Welcome back to Everyday Heroes, a podcast about the unsung heroes of the tech world. From the phone in your pocket to the world's most critical digital infrastructure, open source software has a hand in it. These free technologies that shape our digital world wouldn't be anything without the heroes that maintain them, promote them, and evolve them. These are their stories. I'm your host, Hayden Balio, and I'm here with my co host, Wendy Hurst. What's on your mind today, Wendy?

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Sup? Nostalgia. I'm feeling a little nostalgic today. I often go through old things in my house. It's just kind of what I do. And I found the very first digital camera that I ever bought. It's a Canon PowerShot A510. You cannot buy them anymore. But this might look familiar from like, I don't know, the early 2000s, maybe 2004, 2005, something like that.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

I think it still works, but there's no battery in it.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

That was peak technology back then.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

It was. I bought it at Walmart. It has 3.2 megapixels. That was better than the camera. Like the, the computer cameras you could buy at the time. I don't know if you remember, like JAM cameras, they were really, really low pixel at the time that I bought this. They were like, this is the best camera you can get in this price range. So I bought it.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Well, digital cameras at the, at the end of the day were Also just like, I mean, because, you know, we grew up where it was like you were using film, right? So just the fact that digital cameras were just an invention all to themselves, they were just like, what? Wild.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

That was the very first digital camera I ever bought.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, I remember when the, when the, the photo things came out where you like, you could have all your photos, like you put your SD card in or a USB and it's like all your photos would be on, like, then people might like. I remember we got one for my grandma, right? Because they're like, this is cool. And so you could see all the pictures. But. Yeah, well, you know, old tech is kind of our thing here.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

It is.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Well, Wendy, we're not here to talk about hero devs though, are we? I'm actually thrilled to announce today's guest. She's a true powerhouse in the tech world and a master at building connections. She's the certification community architect at the Linux Foundation, supporting their education education team in creating and maintaining certification exams. Beyond that, she's deeply involved in the Drupal community as a mentor coordinator, a Drupal camp organizer, CWG Conflict resolution team member, and a board of the Colorado Drupal Association. She's also a champion for accessibility through ally talks and a member of the CNCs deaf and hard of Hearing working group. Her unique ability to connect people, whether they're writers, coders or designers, helps open source communities thrive. And her background as a hospice nurse gives her a rare and invaluable perspective on end user challenges. When she's not changing the tech world, she's geocaching, exploring mycology, or tinkering with air cooled Volkswagens.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Oh, and she's legendary for being able to spell diarrhea without spell check. Please welcome the amazing AmyJune Hineline. AmyJune, welcome and thanks for joining us.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Hi, I'm glad to be here. That was quite a little introduction, wasn't it?

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Well, good. I hope that I hyped you up appropriately that this is Everyday Heroes. This isn't Everyday Average Joe's AmyJune. This is Everyday Hero.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

There is one big thing you missed on that list.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Okay.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

I won an Aaron Winborn Award in Drupal in 2021, and that's a pretty prestigious award, so we'll just end the list with that.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Okay, gotcha. All right, I'll make sure put it in the show notes that I messed up and missed out on your prestigious award. Yeah, no worries. But AmyJune, we don't. We don't start this podcast out like most podcasts. What we do is we play a game to start off, to get to know you a little better. And I'm going to let Wendy, our games master, tell you all about it.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Today's game, to start with, is just a simple word association game. I'll say a word, you say whatever comes to mind. It doesn't have to be connected at all. It's just kind of a fun way to get to know you and see how you think.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Are you ready? I'm a little nervous, but okay, we can do this.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

There's no wrong answering this one.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

AmyJune.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Okay. Adventure.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Music.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Dream.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Scary.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Coffee.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Yes.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Favorite.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Ooh, I was gonna say cantaloupe, because it's not my favorite, but that's three words. Okay. Hobby. Geocaching.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Inspiration.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Milo Aukerman from the Descendants.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Okay. Memory.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Kissing.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Relax.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Beach.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Friendship.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Music.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Travel.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Music.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Story.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Music. Home. Redwoods.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Book.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Will. Catherine.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Goal.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Love. Done. That's all the words. Music was on my list, but you.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Said it already and I left off. I want to know more. Tell me more about why music was such a big part of all of those words.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Music. I'm the youngest of seven siblings, and music is the one way I could escape. My parents bought us headsets, the little Radio Shack recorders with the cassettes and then the headphones. And we were loud, we were obnoxious. We lived on farm animals and stuff, and it was always, like, too much noise for me. So music is my escape. And also music is a good way, like, an excuse to get someplace else. Like, my favorite band last year was the Descendants, so I went to all sorts of places to see the Descendants, because that was, like, the adventure point.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Right. And then music is almost one of those things that everyone likes and everyone can connect with, even if you argue with them that they like jazz and you like punk. Like, it's just, like, something that everyone can talk about.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

That's a good way to think about it.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Yeah.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Do you play any instruments?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Do I play any instruments? Well, no, but I have a ukulele and I have a guitar, and I did play brass growing up, so I'm.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Which.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Which brass?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Well, I wanted to play the trombone, but my arm wasn't long enough, so I played the trumpet and the French horn. Okay. That's fun.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

I love that. Yeah. I was. Yeah. Wendy didn't ask. I was like, well, I'm sensing a pattern with these answers, but from what I know, and one of the times that I've hung out with you, Amyg, and I do know that you love your music, and you Love to travel for, for concerts and it's, it's a big part of life. I, yeah, I would like to dive deeper into that. But I, I want to start, you know, on these episodes.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

I feel like I've started well, thanks for playing our game, first of all. And then I've oftentimes started at like the beginning where I'm like, tell me where you grew up, Imogen. I actually want to start with like, because you have such a unique position inside of Open Source. Like, how does one find themselves as a certification, like Community Architect at the Linux Foundation? Like, how does someone become the person that writes the exams that Open Source individuals need to take?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Okay, well, it starts with getting laid off by Red Hat. And it starts with that. And then someone you know from the Linux Foundation reaching out to you and said, I don't know what you do, but I think that you can do that on my team. So I met with someone from the Linux Foundation and told them about my developer relations and like my SME expertise because I don't actually write the exams. I corral cats to write the exams for us. So I find people in the emerging technologies that have the subject matter expertise to write the exams and then I go in and then I do like some of the odds and ends around that. But. But yeah, that.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

It wasn't a job I sought out to do. It was just a job that you know, because I know everyone. Someone reached out to me when they found out what Red Hat did to a whole bunch of us and was like, come, come with me. I want you. I like you. And that's a really good feeling when someone like says, I don't know what you do, but we'll find a place on the team for you.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

So I think that leads really strongly into obviously you got that, you had that ability, that path in your life because I'm assuming networking and, and being around the right people. So tell me a little bit like you, you've always been, you've been a big networker since I've known you. AmyJune. Like you, you know, a lot of people, you obviously are in the community. It seems kind of a trans, like a very easy, easy question to answer. But what kind of role has networking played in, I guess in your adult life? Not just like in your career, but just in general. It seems like you're a very outgoing people person and I'd like to. Yeah, I think there are a lot of people that might be listening to this that are not as extroverted or extroverted And I would say, yeah, I'll leave it at that.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Well, I don't know if I'm extroverted. I'm definitely a cheerleader of people. You know, I want everyone to be successful. And that's one of the things in life that's got moved me forward is like, you're going to tell me your story, I'm going to try to help you out. Right? I was a nurse for a really long time. I still am a nurse, but I don't actively nurse all the time now. But when I got into tech, it was really more about that networking. Because the first agency I worked with, I had the opportunity to do some public speaking and they said, that's great.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

And I said, I want to go to more events. And they said that that's great, but to go to events, you have to public speak more, you have to get sessions accepted, that kind of thing. And when you are a public speaker in open source, you're kind of thought of as a leader a little bit, right? People ask you questions, you have this expertise, you want to share your information with them. And that's kind of where I started with the networking, is just sharing that information. And then I got turned on to the Drupal mentoring team. And I'm not a developer, but I wanted to contribute to Drupal. And so I found a way to teach people how to contribute to Drupal, but without being a programmer or a developer. And that's really when that networking started was like, hey, I'm a project manager.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Someone would be like, oh, go ask AmyJune what you can do on contribute day, because she has an idea for you, you know, and that's just like sort of that branching out and like, just making sure that people know that I'm available for them, because that's what I want to do, is I want to help people succeed. That's that cheerleader part. So I think I'm more of a cheerleader than an extrovert.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, no, that's fair. I. I like what you just said, though. You brought up a good point. Because up to this point, we've had a lot of people on this podcast that have been direct programmers contributing to open source via a lot of. A lot of different things, but very much with their. With their coding expertise. Right? And you said something that was like, I wanted to be able to contribute to Drupal, but I'm not a Drupal developer.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

I like that because a lot of people might be wanting to contribute to Drupal, and I Don't think that anybody understands how many ways there are. So like, could you potentially go through like what are ways that you see like right now in the ecosystem, whether that's Drupal or an open source in general, that you feel like people could maybe go out there and contribute in different ways that where they don't have to sit in front of a computer and actually be in a terminal, they can just, you know, give back to open source in a very distinct way.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Yeah. So there's even ways that people who aren't developers to get into the terminal and code, you know, like with co working sessions and that. But I know that's not your question, organizing a meetup or a camp for your specific technology. Because a lot of times when people say get into Drupal or get into Kubernetes, the first exposure they have to the community is their local meetup. And so being someone that supports locals, it's a wonderful way to meet people. Event organization is not easy, but it's not coding, you know, and then once you get to there, you can go to like the regional level, you can start doing like program selection at things like DrupalCon. You can teach people, you can mentor. Teaching people is a wonderful way to give back because not one person does things the same way.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

So say I give a class on accessibility, on how to do X, Y and Z. If my friend Carrie Fisher gives that same class, she's going to have a different way of teaching it and explaining it and what the end goal is. And so that's a wonderful way to give back. But as far as like my major technology that I work the most in is Drupal. When I help people in contrib day, like with the first time contributor workshops or, or you know, the mentoring tables at DrupalCon itself during contribution day when we have people who come in who aren't coders, there's things that they can work on for modules like logo designs, documentation, testing the documentation, things like that. So there's even like giving back to Core without the code part.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, I think documentation is a huge aspect that is oftentimes lacking almost in every other framework that we've come across too. It's like documentation, big deal.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

And that's actually how I got into Drupal Contributions was I was doing some support work where I was like researching modules. This was Drupal 6, Drupal 7 days. And I wanted to install a module for a university I worked at. And I'm like, I have no idea how this Module works, there's all these gaps. And so the developer came in and goes, oh, no, it's so straightforward. I go, no, you don't understand. I'm not a developer. And there's missing these steps.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

So that was like the perfect introduction for me for documentation and testing software and testing. Testing the steps to replicate. And that's how I got into Drupal. Core contributions was through readmes and external documentation. So.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, I like that. Well, and well, since you mentioned qa, Wendy started her career also in QA as well. How did you kind of get into qa?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Okay, so not on purpose. What happened was I transitioned from being a hospice nurse full time into working in tech. And I took Mike Anello's Drupal Easy class and he got me an internship at a little shop called Kalamuna. And they had me doing like support work. Great. It was wonderful. But they had me doing some accessibility work. And I was like, wait, Something kind of clicked and I was like, y'all can make not Kalamuna, but like the world.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

You'll all in general can make websites that are accessible and you don't like. It was this amazing thing for me because as a hospice nurse, I would work with people, like, I would have to read their email and they're. They're in their last days and the privacy involved in like not being able to access the software. But then when I learned you that stuff is like baked into most of our open source CMSs, but we take it out to look pretty. I was like, what fresh hell are we in that we, you know, exclude all these people? So that's when I got into qa, was really doing like accessibility audits and that sort of thing. And that sort of expanded from there. It was that accessibility work because I would get a ticket and they'd be like, amy June, we're not asking you to do all this. I'm like, well, you said QA the page, so I'm QA ing the page.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

And with QA the page, I noticed that the stuff isn't highlighted on focus. And they're like, but that's not what we asked you to qa. So that's how I got into.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

You're like, sorry, I'm over delivering.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Sorry for the churn.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's similar, you know, to Wendy. It's like you once again, Wendy. I don't think Wendy, like, she just kind of fell into qa. Why, Wendy? Because you just knew that.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Yeah, I did. I worked in data services at a credit repair firm. And I. I'm a fast typer. I was just kind of taking a break from school. I didn't really know what I wanted to do in school, so I just took a job at Data Services. And that meant I used the internal application that they. They created more extensively than maybe different roles than the company.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

And that meant that I learned where all the bugs were. I learned how to work around all of them. I was very familiar with how the application was used. So when a job in QA opened up, they kind of approached me as someone who knew the application rather than technology, and they were willing to teach me the tech part. You know, I learned how to write queries. And anyway, they gave me the job, even though I had no tech experience. The person who gave me that job turned out to be Aaron Frost. That was a very long time ago.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

That's how we first met. 2009, I think, is when he gave me that opportunity. Aaron Frost is the founder of Hero Devs. That's later down the line. We won't talk about the whole story because it's not relevant here, but I just kind of learned it on the job. And I'm similar to you when I got into qa, where I was coming from a user perspective rather than a tech perspective. And sometimes users think about things differently than maybe the way they were designed because we're humans. And sometimes.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Sometimes when you're thinking about, you know, creating an application in a. In a vacuum based on a list of requirements, you forget the humanity part of it. So it's. It's interesting to hear your perspective as well. You're. You're bringing in all these things. Like, I'm thinking at this. You were thinking about it from your perspective of people who have a hard time reading on the computer in their later days of life.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Um, so you kind of bring that into it. I did the same thing. Maybe not. I'm not a hospice nurse, but I came from, you know, people who use it all the time.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Right.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Like this text is too small or this. We're managing clients hate it. Just. You bring your personal experience and match it up, and that can either make or break you in whatever it is you choose to do.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, I love that. I feel out of the loop, though. I've never been a QA engineer, so. Okay, I've been around hospice in my life. Imagine I've. I've known hospice. So it might. This might be a very easy answer, but what was the.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

What was the deciding factor of you moving from hospice? And I know you still do hospice. Hospice to tech.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

So I still do hospice to keep my license, because maybe I won't like tech, you know, because all y'all are weirdos. But the final straw was coming home and looking at my elbow and going, is that poop or chocolate? And I was like, I don't want to play this game anymore. And, you know, there was a lot of other things, but that was like. That final straw was like, coming home with someone else's poop on my shoulder. Because it's bad enough it's just your own poop on your shoulder, but someone else or on your elbow. So it's just a. Like, you know, I've been doing it for many, many, many, many years, and I really enjoy my job. I really enjoyed, like, helping people move on to the next part of their lives, like reverse midwifery.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

But there's a lot of toll that comes along with that. Like, we get a lot of PTO on purpose because it's a really hard job. And, you know, as you get older in life and your kids become teenagers and all of the things, like, there's just perspectives that you no longer have. You might lose your empathy and compassion, which is not good. And I would rather leave before that happens and before I get anyone else's poop on me than, like, go out sourly. Right. So I know that was a long answer.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

No, that's fair. No, you're absolutely right, though. It is. It is a daunting profession to be in. And because the very nature of hospice is to. Yeah, it is. It is to. You will not have your person for very long.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

It's not even a revolving door, I guess. I guess that's maybe the terminology you use, but it's more of just like, yeah, you'll know this person for a little while. But the very essence of hospice is that this person is on their way to the next chapter, whatever that is for them. Right. So I get that. So you moved into tech. I mean, why do you. Why did you choose tech out of everything else? Maybe it was very practical.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

The partner I was with was in Drupal and suggested moving into Drupal. And I was doing some, like, content entry on a website and was always asking them to, like, oh, I need a field that does this. And they said, well, instead of me doing that for you all the time, why don't you learn Drupal? And I went into, you know, the Drupal Easy class with Mike, and I learned the value of open source software, and that was amazing to me. The whole concept of Open source software was enough to be like everything else I'm going to do. Open source software, I didn't care if it was Drupal, just that whole idea of, you know, how it can help elevate socioeconomic communities that are lower than mine, help marginalize communities that we can see. All of the things that people do in the software, you know, just all of that stuff just sort of like, like burst my head open and then just Drupal the community is what kept me mostly in Drupal. My career. Like our community is so special.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, absolutely. I do agree. We're like I was at a Drupal meetup last night and I, I said the exact same thing that I'll say to you. It's just continually surprises me how tight knit the Drupal community is. Out of almost every community I've, I've seen at this point. Like y'all truly do want just Drupal to succeed and y'all like the people that are there. There's all the, there's all the things that come along with just getting a group of people in the same room. But like I feel like at the end of the day y'all, y'all really just want to see Drupal get better and to live on and continue and it's really cool to see.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Everyday Heroes is brought to you by Herodes. Hero devs offer secure drop and replacements for your end of life open source software through our never ending support product line. You get to stay compliant with the likes of SOC2 and HIPAA and Fedramp and all the other acronyms and regulatory bodies you can think of. All while also getting real vulnerability remediation. You don't have to choose between a new feature and security. And with over 800 clients, you can be confident that your unsupported open source is in good hands. So if you need us, we're here. And if you don't, well, that probably means you've migrated to the newest version.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

So huzzah either way. Visit herodeads.com to learn more. Now back to your regular scheduled programming. Peace. Okay, AmyJune, I think it's time that we play our second game of the episode. Wendy, you want to tell her what she's won? I mean, whatever, Tell her what she's won.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Playing the game makes us all winners. We're going to play a game called Fork Star or Deprecate that we definitely made up. I'm going to say anything from an open source tool to A programming language to whatever it is. Something that feels relatable to you. I promise. I went through the list beforehand to a ridiculous concept that we made up. And then you decide whether you'd like to fork it so that you can improve it. Star it, which means leave it alone, or deprecate it.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Retire it entirely. Are you ready?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Yes. Okay. There's some trepidation, but I got it.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

It's okay. Okay. The Linux Foundation's training and certification programs. Would you fork it? Star it, or deprecate it?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

I'd fork it.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Okay. Open source dev swag culture.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

I'd deprecate it.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Okay.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

There's only so many, like, stress balls that you need, you know.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Sorry.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

That's fair.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Okay.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

I have a stress ball and three other ducks over here. I get it. Okay. No one needs five ducks or whatever.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Except me giving them five ducks though, right?

‍

Wendy Hurst:

If someone gave me five more ducks, I would take them. WIX and Squarespace for CMS alternatives.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

You know what I'm gonna say? Here, deprecate.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

I put one on there for you, I promise. Okay, Next one. Becoming a professional QA engineer.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Who?

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Anybody. Just the concept of becoming for deprecate foreclos. Okay, how about this one? No meetings days.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

I will leave that one alone because that sounds glorious. Okay, Star.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

Okay. A certification roulette tool that randomly assigns certifications based on past projects.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Ooh, fork it. Okay.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

And then the last one, something called CAT GPT, which is AI that only answers in cat memes.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Fork it.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

How would you improve it?

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Have it on all AI, like always. That's the last thing that spits out. Right?

‍

Hayden Baillio:

You know, plus a cat meme. Yeah, exactly.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

Plus a cat meme.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

That's the second game. And yeah, I could foresee your WIX in Squarespace answer. And you know, with Drupal CMS being delivered this year, that. I mean, it is a much closer alternative in. In terms of.

‍

AmyJune Hineline:

I mean, they have their space, but as a cms, maybe not. So that was the word that. Like, am I ever gonna make a WIX or Squarespace site? No, but I don't know.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

I don't know if you are.

‍

Wendy Hurst:

You don't have to tell us.

‍

Hayden Baillio:

Are you gonna go back in the hospice, Amy? Dude, I have. No, that's your journey. But, AmyJune, thanks for playing our game. I would love to now move into something that's been burning inside of me to know what is this whole thing with the word diarrhea?

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AmyJune Hineline:

Okay, so I'm old. Okay? I am so old that when I first started Nursing. We did paper charting, and you'd have to spell everything out. And, like, I would learn how to spell diarrhea. Okay, so move into tech. You have spell check, and everybody loses the ability to spell words. But I just thought it was amazing that I could still spell diarrhea, you know, D I A R R H E A is not intuitive. So I put it on my resume and it got me my job@opensource.com at Red Hat.

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AmyJune Hineline:

So they said they had all of these applications that they went through, but they had never seen the word diarrhea on a resum. Intriguing to them. What type of person would put that on their resume? And I got hired. So now I keep it on there and I keep it on LinkedIn because it's an amazing fact. And then I have, like, I had this one, like, recruiting thing happen, and I said, can you look at my resume? She goes, oh, you got to take the word diarrhea off your resume. I'm like, if a. If a shop or a consultancy or whoever I work with can't handle me having that on my resume, I don't think I can work for them. So it's like a litmus test too, right? Yeah, I think it's hilarious.

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AmyJune Hineline:

I cracked myself up, so I love it. Just the fact that it got me a job, I mean, that's amazing.

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Hayden Baillio:

Yeah. And at Red Hat, no less, too, which is a large company. I'm sure when you joined, it was already large, so that's funny. Well, I think that's very real, though. And so just like, I feel like a little tip. I've now hired three or four people, five people now at Hero Devs. And I can say that you gotta stand out.

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Wendy Hurst:

We have hired many people, and I can tell you that none of them have the word diarrhea on their resume.

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Hayden Baillio:

This is true. All of them. But, you know, I tend to gravitate towards people that do something interesting on their resume.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Okay.

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Wendy Hurst:

I want to learn more about your journey to becoming where you are today. The earlier on in the podcast, we asked the question, how does one become you?

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AmyJune Hineline:

So I'd like to start with my journey in tech in 2015, because the other stuff, it's like a lifetime ago, right? Sure, it's a lifetime ago. But in tech, what happened was that aha moment with open source and realizing how important open source was to me. The next aha moment was discovering that I am in no way ever going to be a developer. I mean, no two words around it. It's just not going to happen. It's not my thing. I do not care enough, right? So. But I loved my Drupal people and I love my open source people.

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AmyJune Hineline:

So what can I do to keep my job in tech basically? And so I had a friend who owned a consultancy called Canopy and she took a risk, took a chance on me and I became like her. You know how the thing is, like if you use open source, if you depend on open source, open source depends on new and you should really be giving back. And so she had me doing a lot of the giving back and it didn't matter. So she had me go to camps and teach classes on accessibility. She was a big advocate for me being a mentor in the mentoring space because the more exposure and it's not totally altruistic, right? The more exposure her company has, the more talent recruitment there is. And so I really got into that like developer advocacy role and they used other technologies so I had to get into that other CMS space that has a lot of market share but we don't need to talk about. So I branched out into like working on that different CMS and then I branched out into accessibility and then I branched out into community management and all of these things and they all sort of just sort of like it was like a bumper cars. I had the privilege of being able to experiment with what I wanted to do and how to integrate them all.

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AmyJune Hineline:

And now I have like all these really rich experiences and tech that I can use@open source.com right? Because in open source.com, i was the community manager for collecting articles on all different kinds of tech and so having that experience in different tech. And now I work at the Linux Foundation and I work with emerging technologies from the Cloud Native Computing foundation that are trying to get their things going. And so it's just all about like having these spaces that I can help incubate and grow and become projects on their own. And that's really kind of special for me is helping that. And like I said that natural bumper cars is. I think some people can get kind of wound up on like sticking to what they do and getting better at that one thing, but not utilizing all of those skills at once and like giving yourself the permission to kind of be a beginner again, you know, stepping down from a leadership role. Like right now I'm like actively stepping down from Drupal mentor coordinator because when I say no, it gives someone else a chance to say yes, you know, and stepping down gracefully is part of being a leader. So that way I could move into the conflict resolution team.

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AmyJune Hineline:

And now I'm learning about that kind of stuff. So allowing yourself to. To get into those leadership roles, mentor someone into those, and then move on to the next thing you might have some interest in or not have an interest in. But there's a gap to fill. You know, just being able to take those chances and being willing to not be good at what you do for a while. And I'm really good at that.

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Hayden Baillio:

Yeah, that's a. That's a very undervalued thing, I think, with anybody that I come across is, are you just willing to maybe look. Stupid's not the right word, but are you willing to look stupid for a little while because. And just humble yourself and learn until you can get it right? Because I don't think, you know, nobody's. Nobody comes out of the womb knowing how to do everything perfectly right. Everybody goes through their learning curve. I actually, I can't stand the toxic culture there is on, like, LinkedIn or anything else where it's like, I'm just. I'm always a master and never everything I do is infallible.

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Hayden Baillio:

And I'm like, well, I know that's. That's not true. Awesome. Like, it's. It's just the whole, like, Instagram facade moment that's coming now to the tech world, where it's like, show me all the, all the. That went wrong. Like, that's what I want to see. Because, like, you learned all your lessons, you're successful.

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Hayden Baillio:

I'm not going to say that you're not successful, at least financially, but it's like you learned your lessons from making mistakes, probably, like, or being lucky, but at least be honest with those two things, you know? But I love that it's been really cool to have you on Imogen, because I think a lot of people, once again, they. They see open source software and they think that you have to be a developer to be in it, to contribute to it, to be a part of the community, to do anything like that. And it's cool to see someone who was a QA engineer and doesn't like, is not a Drupal developer, become a critical part of the Drupal community, to have contributed in a lot of different ways. And so thanks for coming on and showcasing all the different avenues and paths that there are for somebody to do that. So I appreciate that.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Thanks for having me. I like telling my story because other people can have those stories, but they don't celebrate them. Right?

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Hayden Baillio:

Yes. And there's this move from, of A lot of people in the tech, right. Or like a lot of companies are just becoming tech companies. And so, like, you're coming from, like, there's. There's a lot of stories out there of I'm coming from hospice into tech or, you know, but in their various industry, right, where it's like, I want to get into tech or they feel like there's more security in tech, whatever that looks like. And so it is really cool to hear your story and I appreciate you coming on. Before we kind of wrap things up completely, we do have one last game.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Uh.

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Hayden Baillio:

Oh, Are you ready?

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Wendy Hurst:

We do.

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AmyJune Hineline:

We have one more game.

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Wendy Hurst:

Our final game of the show is called Not My Job. We will ask you three questions that have nothing to do with your job in the real world or anything else we've talked about today or ever, and everything to do with what you know about weird inventions throughout history. Are you ready?

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Hayden Baillio:

Interesting one.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Yes.

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Wendy Hurst:

Okay, question one.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Oh, there's more than one. Okay.

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Wendy Hurst:

What was the purpose of the cat piano, which is an 18th century invention? Was it A, a musical instrument designed for cats to play? B, a piano that used cats tails to create sound, or C, a prank piano that sprayed water when played?

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AmyJune Hineline:

I will go with A, a musical.

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Wendy Hurst:

Instrument designed for cats to play. Incorrect. It was B, a piano that used cat's tails to create sound.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Oh, are we talking cat tails like the plant or the animal?

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Wendy Hurst:

The animal.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Oh, okay.

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Wendy Hurst:

Cat piano used cats placed in a row with their tails stretched under a keyboard. Pressing a key would strike a cat's tail, calling it to causing it to yowl. Oh, it was like allegedly invented to entertain royalty.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Oh, my gosh.

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Hayden Baillio:

Man.

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Wendy Hurst:

The cat piano.

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Hayden Baillio:

Wow. Okay, I'm ready for number two already. I'm learning something.

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Wendy Hurst:

Okay, okay. All right, question number two. What unusual feature did the Tamaton, which is a Japanese invention, have? A, it allowed users to eat tomatoes while jogging. B, it automatically peeled and sliced tomatoes. Or C, it was a tomato shaped alarm clock.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Hmm, I'm gonna go B.

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Wendy Hurst:

The answer was A, it allowed users to eat animals or something. Let me say that again. Wow, I changed the answer on you there.

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AmyJune Hineline:

I would have got it right then.

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Wendy Hurst:

You know, it allowed users to eat tomatoes while jogging. Yeah, I'm probably saying it wrong, but to my tomaton was a wearable robot that sat on your shoulders and fed you tomatoes as you ran. It was designed to promote healthy snacking during marathon.

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Hayden Baillio:

Wild invention. Wild invention.

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Wendy Hurst:

Tomatoes, not animals. Okay.

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AmyJune Hineline:

I wonder if it like. Yeah, I wonder if it had a pitch where like, it flipped. It up and you had to catch it like that or did it like shove it in your face?

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Hayden Baillio:

Like, he's like, oh, my God. It's just like it was hitting your cheek with it, right? He's like, sorry. For every audio person see me do that.

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AmyJune Hineline:

All right, question number three.

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Wendy Hurst:

Number three of three. Here we go. What was the motorized ice cream cone patented in the early 2000s, designed to do? A, keep ice cream cold while outdoors, B, spin the ice cream for you as you lick it, or C, automatically refill with more ice cream?

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AmyJune Hineline:

I'm gonna go, B, I really need something to spin that ice cream for me.

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Wendy Hurst:

The answer is B, spin that ice cream as you lick it. It rotated the ice cream so you.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Wouldn'T have to move your tongue while eating it.

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Hayden Baillio:

Well, it's like sometimes you're like, sometimes you're like, you're looking at inventions and you're like, man, is it real? Like, like it's one of those things where you're like, I invented something for a problem that doesn't really exist. It's like this. It doesn't exist. That's. That was amazing. Great job, AmyJune. Hey, one out of three is not bad. Yeah.

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Hayden Baillio:

And the most important one and also, once again, not your job. Right. Not your job to understand.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Not your job.

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Hayden Baillio:

We play it wrong.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Well.

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Hayden Baillio:

Well, I have one last question to wrap onto that one. This one's maybe just as hard, but hopefully a little bit more on topic. For what is your job? So if you had one word that you could send every maintainer, contributor, organizer in open source, you could send it. It's like a git, commit or a comment or whatever. You could send a slack message to everybody. What would that one word be?

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AmyJune Hineline:

Appreciated.

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Hayden Baillio:

I love that.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Why? Why? Because I appreciate the things that people do that I cannot. Like if it's like, you know, an open source software program and they're developing the software they're making, you know, they're changing the style they to do the way they do things. Basic CSS changes. I can't do any of that stuff. So I appreciate every commit that someone does because it's beyond my skill set most of the time. So it's just this like. And they're moving things forward generally. Typically.

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AmyJune Hineline:

I mean, not always. Most of our, most of our maintainers are working on moving things forward.

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Hayden Baillio:

Yeah.

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AmyJune Hineline:

And that's a pretty, pretty nice thing for us.

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Hayden Baillio:

I love that. Well, I really appreciate you, AmyJune, for coming on. I appreciate you, Wendy, for being our games master co host extraordinaire. And I appreciate you for watching or listening to this wherever you're at. And I hope that you can share it with one of your engineering or non engineering friends if you got some insights or a nugget from this episode with AmyJune and I hope to see you in the next episode. Thanks again, AmyJune, for joining. We'll talk to y'all heroes later.

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AmyJune Hineline:

Thank you, Wendy and Hayden, thank you.

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Hayden Baillio:

Bye.